AR-15 Stock –
. Mossberg 500 Accessories blamed Mesa, Mesa blamed Mossberg. I finally realized that the screws mesa ships with its 930spx are of a smaller diameter then the Mossberg 500 Accessories pins that the mesa screws replace. Mesa denies this too this day. Told me Mossberg 500 Accessories must have switched the diameter of the pins on them without notification, and get this, I was the first person to ever complain about this. My micrometer does not lie. The fasteners that Mesa provides were of a smaller diameter then the stock mossy pin. This allowed my already loose trigger assembly to "float" around a little more in the receiver and that had some sort of still unknown to me interaction with the bolt or something else that would not allow my shotgun to fire more then one round. I was essentially left with a $50 mesa paperweight. Did I mention they still to this day deny that their fasteners are of a smaller diameter then the stock Mossberg 500 Accessories pins? I’m tired of companys taking money for an inferior product and not providing any sort of support. I’ve tried to play nice over the last 10 months. Others rave about the great customer service mesa provides. Well, I have yet to see it. tacman556 6/11/2010 12:04:21 AM Have you considered taking off the Mesa and putting on a TacStar and seeing what happens? You know, people were completely satisfied with the TacStar for a couple of decades before the Mesa was ever invented. I bought a Mesa thinking it would be the greatest thing since sliced bread, but have about decided that I think it was a solution to a problem that didn’t exist. I really think I like the TacStar better. Simpler, lighter, cheaper, better shell retention, what’s not to like? aippi 6/11/2010 3:02:13 AM They new Mesa side saddle now come with a new type of front trigger pin. It is a two piece pin with one having male threaded and one having female treads. They no longer use the steel front trigger pins with the two screws. They still use that on the back trigger pin. Your issue may very well be the reason they changed the front pin. So call Dan at the number I gave and if this is infact the solution, he will send you the new front pins free so you don’t have to use a fancy paper weight. Mesa customer service is one of the best in the business. Not sure why you are having an issue but I have delt with them for serveral years. Any time there is an issue and I refer a client to them the client get results. Sorry if anyone had an issue and the above may very well be the fix. Please try calling about the new front pin and let us know the result. F22_RaptoR 6/11/2010 4:11:48 AM I’ll give you the solution to the problem. Use double sided tape and tape it on. Get a good quality, "outdoor/high strength" tape. (the stuff I use is the 3M stuff which is a dark grey color) Mesa Tactical has had quite a few problems with the hardware they use to attach the side saddle’s. The 870′s and 930′s had a cross screw style that binded the receiver, and if left loose they were prone to snapping or breaking. The Benelli AccessoriesM4 ones liked to strip the Aluminum threads out because the screws they used were too soft. The tape Idea I use is THE best method I have come up with. Its VERY durable, and no mods to the gun that could cause any problems. As for strength? I can put my 8 fingers in the 8 shell loops, and shake the gun as HARD as I fricking can, and it WILL NOT come off. If you did that with the screw-in method for the M4s90, it would probably rip the screws right out. Just grab some good degreaser and take it to the receiver and the shell carrier that will be taped. Problem solved, for 5 bucks m24shooter 6/11/2010 12:22:35 PM This is not the first time I’ve heard of this issue. If you look at the Mesa forum on their webiste there was a guy that posted with this problem and never got a response. On the company’s own website. That tracks with what i’ve heard from several people that have had the exact same problem. One guy actual had a friend that had ordered one with him, and once they installed them both of their 930s quite working. The whole reason the 930 version took so long was that Mesa was supposed to be getting special connectors made to prevent binding the receiver. A two part unit was designed with a built in mechanical stop to prevent overtightening. The first batch was messed up, so they had to go out for more. Sounds like the improved bunch isn’t working. As for what works, here’s what I did: It is an 870 TacStar sidesaddle that I modified to use with the 930. Never had a problem with it. I did this before TacStar came out with the 930 model, which I also have but haven’t installed. The 930 is faily light and ballanced, and the 4 round version gives me some extra rounds without making the shotgun too bulky or off balance. Originally Posted By c0wboy: My partner and I were talking about this earlier today, oddly enough. Evidently this isn’t a new problem, and has been around since day on Tasa Mactical sidesaddles. The closest folks can figure is that it has something to do with the bolts that replace the pins. Eric I had the same discussion with him. Originally Posted By ANIMUS: I’ve heard that side saddles could create problems with Benelli AccessoriesM1S90′s as well. I didn’t keep mine long enough to find out though. They will. The M1/M2 are ID guns, and adding wieght is a no-no for them. m24shooter 6/11/2010 12:36:03 PM Originally Posted By acidman:I was told by mesa that I must be tightening the screws too tight, then I was told I was not tightening them enough, then I was told I was not tightening them in the proper sequence. Bla, Bla, Bla. All this was by their so called "engineer". Mossberg 500 Accessories blamed Mesa, Mesa blamed Mossberg. Well, if the shtogun works without the carrier, but doesn’t with the carrier, that would seem to indicate the carrier is the problem. I finally realized that the screws mesa ships with its 930spx are of a smaller diameter then the Mossberg 500 Accessories pins that the mesa screws replace. Mesa denies this too this day. Told me Mossberg 500 Accessories must have switched the diameter of the pins on them without notification, and get this, I was the first person to ever complain about this. My micrometer does not lie. The fasteners that Mesa provides were of a smaller diameter then the stock mossy pin. I wonder why Mossberg 500 Accessories would do that. You might have been the first to complain, but it doesn’t seem like you’re the last or only one. This allowed my already loose trigger assembly to "float" around a little more in the receiver and that had some sort of still unknown to me interaction with the bolt or something else that would not allow my shotgun to fire more then one round. I’ve heard that as well. I can say with the modified TacStar that I used, the screws actually tightened up the trigger group so that there was no wobble in it. I’ve sicne replaced the screws I bought for the modification with the screws provided for the TacStar unit, and the effect is the same: no wobble. I was essentially left with a $50 mesa paperweight. Did I mention they still to this day deny that their fasteners are of a smaller diameter then the stock Mossberg 500 Accessories pins? I was supposed to have gotten a test unit of the Mesa for the 930. I never did. Sounds like I’m better off that way. The TacStar, even the one originally intended for the 870 that I modified to work with the 930, has worked from the very beginning. aippi 6/11/2010 5:23:49 PM Dan at Mesa was off today so I talked to Mitch. He states the issue is exactly what others in this post have stated, that the front trigger pin for the 930 is smaller and on some weapons allows the trigger assembly to move. The are working on a front pin. They will post on their web site when it is availible and anyone needing one simply calls them and they send you a new pin, Free of course. He also states that they tell customers who call in with the issue that the pin is small and is the problem and they advise them to simply return the shell carrier for a refund. He also stated that the present system does work on many of the 930′s but not on others. Again, I deal with several manufacturers of accessories as this is my business. I will tell anyone, anytime, that Mesa and Surefire have the best customer service of all the ones I have delt with and that is why I have made my life very simple by featuring their products. Any company can have an issue, especially when they contract certian parts out, just like all manufacturers do. The toyota recall was because of the part being made by a contractor. Yes, they are responsible for the parts they use and that is where customer service comes in. AR15fan 6/11/2010 7:52:36 PM Common problems with Benellis and side saddles as well. The added weight affects funtion of the benelli. acidman 6/12/2010 9:55:39 AM Originally Posted By aippi: Dan at Mesa was off today so I talked to Mitch. He states the issue is exactly what others in this post have stated, that the front trigger pin for the 930 is smaller and on some weapons allows the trigger assembly to move. The are working on a front pin. They will post on their web site when it is availible and anyone needing one simply calls them and they send you a new pin, Free of course. Actually, something is quite fishy here. Both trigger group pins that are factory Mossberg 500 Accessories are the same part number and the same size as each other. The replacement screws and hardware I got from Mesa are both the same size as each other, just undersized diameter when compared to the Mossberg 500 Accessories pins. Once again, this allows the trigger group to float a few hundrenth and causes the malfunctions in the 930spx. Sure you could tighten the mesa hardware enough to hold the trigger group tightly but this squeezes the receiver and impairs operation. Furthermore, if you tighten the mesa screws you have no idea where the trigger group location should be in relation to the receiver to allow proper function. Should the group be pushed back, up, down, or forward? Yes, there is that much play in the setup when using the mesa hardware. Rememeber, the trigger groups is dumb. It is not a living entitiy. It has no idea what pins are holding it in place. It doesn’t give a shit if the pins are Mossberg 500 Accessories or mesa, as long as they are the same diameter and thus hold the trigger group tight in relation to the receiver. BTW, Mesa, like me, has no idea how the loose trigger group could cause the malfunctions we are experiencing. This was told to me over the phone by mesa "engineer" and is not being misinterpreted by me. So as you posted you are saying Mesa said only the front pin is smaller That makes no sense at all because of what I explained above. I think the people I talked to at Mesa about my original problem were Mitch and Dan close to 9 months ago, and like I said, I was basically dismissed and in no uncertain terms was told it was mossbergs problem and definately not a problem on Mesa’s end. I’m not here to trash Mesa, just posting my experience with their product. Maybe things have changed and I will try again to get to the bottom of this with mesa and get this dang side saddle to function correctly. Maybe when I made my calls everyone was just having a bad day. I don’t know. But as a end user I should not have to be breaking out micrometers and comparing hardware from Mesa and Mossberg. I should not have to spend $$ in wasting probably close to 100 rounds of ammo to test their product, not to mention time and gas for multiple trips to a range. I shouId not have to play engineer and act like one on the phone when talking to a real engineer. I should not have to go through the trouble of shipping my 930 back to Mossberg 500 Accessories for problems that were caused by the addition of the mesa side saddle. This is all unacceptable. m24shooter 6/12/2010 11:50:33 AM Acidman: The problem you’re describing is exactly the same as what I’ve heard from others. Are you getting feeding or extraction failures? acidman 6/12/2010 12:00:00 PM Originally Posted By m24shooter: Acidman: The problem you’re describing is exactly the same as what I’ve heard from others. Are you getting feeding or extraction failures? Its been months since I’ve messed with it but as I recall after I fired a shell successfully, the gun would cycle and load but when I pulled the trigger there would be a failure to fire. I don’t want to mislead anyone, but like I said, its been months since I’ve messed with it. I don’t recall any extraction problems, just FTF. aippi 6/12/2010 12:23:19 PM I may have missunderstood as we talked about the new small front trigger pins for Remington. The smaller front pin will soon not be available and that will cause me and issue for duty weapon with shell holders on each side. The new front pin will not allow for this. So if I got that confused, forgive me. I don’t know which pins hold what on a Mossberg. For example: on the Remington only the front trigger pin holds the shell latches in place. As for Mesa denying to this day that the pins are smaller, that is not true. A simple telephone call will verify that. Your solution is simple. return the shell holder. I have no Mossbergs, know nothing about Mossbergs and only responded to the thread as a company I do business with was being attacked, and no, not by everyone as reasonable people understand product issues. There is little more a company can do other then offer a full refund and that is what Mesa did to anyone who had the issue. I also have confidence that they will have found a vendor who can make a trigger pin to specs and anyone with that model shell holder will be able to get them. Redbone 6/12/2010 3:36:08 PM I agree with the double sided tape attachment method. I plan to attach one to my 930 spx and 870 with Velcro so I can take them off when I need to. acidman 6/12/2010 5:41:28 PM Originally Posted By Redbone: I agree with the double sided tape attachment method. I plan to attach one to my 930 spx and 870 with Velcro so I can take them off when I need to. I’ve tried the velco method with the 4 shot Mesa Tactical on the 930spx and it does not work for me. The flat portion of the mesa side saddle is about an inch tall and 4 inches wide. When using velro there is not enough surface area to provide a solid mount. I actually tried this twice with 2 different types of velco, both industrial strength and normal velcro. The saddle moves around about 3/8 inch, is flimsy, and is not secure enough to trust when retrieving rounds from the saddle. A tacstar on the other hand provides a much larger surface area and will probably work with velcro just fine. F22_RaptoR 6/12/2010 9:18:31 PM Yeah I would stick with the tape rather than velcro, it will let the shell carrier flop around a bit too much since the velcro has some give to it. Although the tape I suggested has about 1/16th of an inch foam layer in the middle, its solid enough that it almost feels like its built into the gun. Its quite difficult to get the shell carrier off, but once I put mine on, I haven’t had to remove it in over 2 years or so, and I haven’t had to replace the tape yet. Guess I should post a pic of it c0wboy 6/12/2010 11:54:54 PM I’m sorry, but I believe that there is absolutely no reason a quality part should need tacky tape because the engineering and design is faulty. Poor showing by Mesa I feel. F22_RaptoR 6/13/2010 12:03:39 AM Originally Posted By c0wboy: I’m sorry, but I believe that there is absolutely no reason a quality part should need tacky tape because the engineering and design is faulty. Poor showing by Mesa I feel. You’re right, but the number of ways to do it are limited. I ended up purchasing some high grade stainless steel screws after I found out the MESA ones were stretching (the threads), however it was pretty much too late, the thread integrity on my receiver was about 50%. Luckily the factory Benelli Accessoriesscrews are almost a 100% thread, with very sharp corners, so I was able to epoxy the factory rail on top and screw it in with the factory screws. As for the mesa shell carrier, I cut the top portion off and then taped it on the side. But as I have said before, this method wont damage your receiver at all, and its much stronger than the Mesa side saddle way of attaching the carrier. But yeah, it was kind of a crappy way of fixing a problem that shouldn’t have existed. Its REALLY easy to tell if screws are are either stainless or hardened carbon steel, they will have very little or no magnetic field to them (so they wont stick to magnets, or barely attract to them). If the screws are very magnetic they will attract strongly to magnets. Its really unfortunate because the Mesa shell carriers are VERY good quality and well thought out products, but the hardware they use to attach them are utter garbage… ETA just as an FYI the red on the tape above is from me using a Sharpie marker to blacken it from the medium grey, so that’s why it appears a little bit red from the camera. acidman 6/13/2010 12:09:02 AM Where did you get that double sided tape and what type is it? Redbone 6/13/2010 10:42:10 AM Thanks Acidman.